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Ladyhawke Productions (LHP): Sheryl, I know how much you
love working in the entertainment industry but if you had
the opportunity to do it all over again now, would you choose
to be in the business or would you be doing something else?
Sheryl: (LOL) Hindsight Well…I’ll tell you something…I
love what I do and I love being in this business, but I have
a whole different perspective of it now and I don’t
know really. I have had a great career because everything
just kind of happened for me. I didn’t plan everything,
as corny as it might sound I let the universe guide me. I
listened to what was going on around me and I made decisions
based on what I heard. And (it turned out) they were the
right ones.
LHP: So…fate has treated you
well?
Sheryl: You know I was a theatre
major in college and I had every intention of being an
actress in NY. But then my
father got a job in California and we moved out here. And
the whole acting scene and the whole philosophy was very
different here than in NY. Since I wasn’t the typical
6-foot tall leggy blond I felt everyone was looking for at
the time, is still looking for in some ways I guess, I got
discouraged. I started working for a talent agency, mind
you at the time it was just a job- I had no intention of
ever doing that for a living…never. But I started working
there and learned the business, and gradually was given more
responsibility. Over time I just fell in love with the talent
of these actors and decided I wanted to help them develop
and get work…so that just kind of happened. And then
I was lucky…I was good at it.
LHP: Yes…you have impeccable
taste.
Sheryl: Well, to be honest I think
the best quality I have…about
everything…not only in business…is that I know
what’s good. This is probably going to sound really
egotistical, and I don’t mean it to, but the one thing
I know about myself is that I happen to have really good
taste. And I think that’s a gift…to have a pulse
on what is happening or what is going to happen in the industry.
Like…sometimes you know something’s great but
that the public’s not gonna buy it. So you have to
take it and refine it so that it’s not just good but
also commercially viable. And I think I have a really good
eye for that. I think that is the quality that made me really
good as a talent agent and is today what makes me a good
casting agent.
I’ve never been in love with the actual business aspects
of the industry because I‘m not really a business type
person. Making great business deals has never really turned
me on…the best part was getting the actor the interview…and
getting the actor the job. You know…I never thought
about how much money I was gonna make while I was doing that…and
(LOL) …maybe that was a mistake.
LHP: (LOL) Oh I don’t know…I think that it’s
a blessing if you can do that- enjoy the process so much
that you don’t care about the money.
Sheryl: I was never motivated by money.
LHP: It’s really interesting how things come full
circle. It seems to me that as our responsibilities grow
in life, our focus shifts and we start chasing the paper
dragon. We have these things we think we have to take care
of and things we think we have to have. And then it seems
we come full circle…at least I hope we do…and
figure out that less is more. I know I’ve found myself
wanting to be able to let go of “things” …to
learn to live with less again…and hold on instead to
experiences, feelings, loved ones.
Sheryl: Right…on a simple level…what
do you really need?
LHP: Exactly. And your priorities
shift to what you can do with money rather than what you
can buy with money…making
memories, helping others, etc…maybe because we get
saturated with “things” at some point…or
maybe it’s because we recognize we only have one shot
at this whole game and there are more important focuses for
our time, energy and money than buying more toys.
Sheryl: I think that if you are open…and if you listen
to your heart, your world, whatever your higher power is…it
will lead you in the direction you want to go…but you
have to listen and you have be honest with yourself. Because
lets say you decided you wanted to be an agent when you were
16 and thought you would love it but you’ve never actually
done the job. Then once you get there you actually hate it,
what are you going to do? You don’t want spend your
life hating it so you have to be open to change.
LHP: Yes and sometimes, in fact often,
if it’s the
end result you think will make you happy then what happens
when you get there and it doesn’t?
Sheryl: Sometimes I do think people
really do sell their soul for their success…I do. There are some people
who don’t…the Tom Hanks of the world…people
that are really good people. I mean good things do sometimes
happen to good people but I have also seen a lot of good
things happen to bad people. And they may get what they think
they want out of life but then something terrible happens.
There’s a price. If you don’t do it with your
heart, for the right reasons, and you don’t have integrity,
or if you are only motivated by greed…eventually that’s
going to end.
LHP: Which is a great lead in to my next question. What
kind of advice would you give to someone who thinks they
want to be a part of the entertainment industry, or someone
already in the industry who is just starting out?
Sheryl: When I was an agent I often
told my actors…you
have to enjoy the work, the process, enjoy the time that
you’re spending doing it and think of it as a job.
Don’t be in love with the part or the character you
are auditioning for. It may not be the part you’re
supposed to get. Don’t think of the results…just
be in love with the process of doing it. I think you need
to be in love with the creative process- the collaboration,
and not the end result. And still remember- that it is just
what you do to make a living. It isn’t the only thing
that makes you who you are.
LHP: I think that is a life long
process itself…learning
that the joy is in the journey and not the destination. Some
people never learn it. And most of us need reminders at regular
intervals.
Sheryl: It’s really a hard lesson to get because when
you’re young you have so much energy and you can work
you know 18 hour days, make a lot of money, or at least you
think its a lot of money at the time, and then go party and
go with your friends. But as you get older and have responsibilities
you can’t give that much time to your job and have
a life. So you have to make choices. And I think a lot of
people make the wrong choice and then they find out too late.
You know there’s a need to have an equal balance.
LHP: Maybe one of the reasons the
world seems so out of whack these days…that people have not only lost that
balance but lost any frame of reference to it…and don’t
even know what is missing. How can you find what you don’t
even know is lost?
Sheryl: You know, a lot of people
in this business that are really successful and very wealthy
don’t consider
themselves successful because they lost the time in their
real lives with their families and their wives.
LHP: Trying to recover balance in
my own life was what brought me back to writing. I decided
that I needed to revive the
creative half of my soul. And what I found out in the process
is something I tell anyone who will listen…we all have
a need to create and to connect in order to be whole. Most
of us feel like we don’t have the time…that it’s
a luxury we can’t afford.
Sheryl: Balance and not just to be so obsessed with the
work, and the end results, and the paycheck, because the
most satisfying thing we have is the process.
LHP: Do you think that perhaps a particular type of personality
is drawn to acting?
Sheryl: I do think that there are
real actors, who are real artists, and would do it for
free every day of the week.
People like William Macey…people who are really great
at what they do and love it so much that they couldn’t
not do it. Kathy Bates is another one. There are just some
people who are actors first and foremost. A lot of people
get lucky…they are good looking young people and they
are in the right place at the right time. Some of them become
true actors as they go. They work and learn…grow and
get better as they go.
But it isn’t in their blood the same way. They wouldn’t
tour around the country for nothing more than the sheer love
of what they are doing. They wouldn’t do a script that
they loved for free- forgo their salary because they thought
this writer was incredibly talented and they wanted to be
a part of making the work come to life. It’s interesting
but I still think I have an idealistic view of this after
all this time in the business. I really feel that there are
some of those good people out there.
LHP: Which brings us to my next question. How has the business,
and being in the business, changed you for the better?
Sheryl: I think having the opportunity
to meet so many different types of people and having the
opportunity to work in so
many different areas, with so many different ages and every
person I’ve met has added to my knowledge about what
I do. And I don’t think there is any business in the
world where you could meet as many people.
LHP: I guess I’m digging for something deeper, a little
more personal. If you looked back to where you started…in
what ways have you grown? How have those opportunities and
experiences changed Sheryl Levine.
Sheryl: My feeling is that I haven’t grown from the
business at all…but rather I’ve grown from living
my life in the business. I think that this business has nothing
special to give you except if you take each experience as
it comes to you and you learn from it. I don’t think
you can get incredibly brilliant or wise from being in show
business. Not like you can get wise from, say, being in the
medical business.
LHP: Well then, is there a valuable
lesson you have learned from those experiences in the business?
Something you’ve
learned that has permeated every aspect of your life?
Sheryl: That you have to be true
to what you feel is real. And I don’t think most people do that. I’ve been
very lucky because I can’t (let myself) be in a position
to say something is good when I don’t think it’s
good. A lot of people do that in this business. I’ve
learned that when you’re dishonest about what you think
when you’re asked an opinion the whole project suffers.
And what I’ve seen happen in the business is that people
are afraid to say what they really feel or admit that they
may not have an opinion- because they don’t know enough
about something.
LHP: So they just adopt another person’s
opinion?
Sheryl: Exactly. When they should
just say, “You know
what, I don’t have an opinion on this or I don’t
know enough about it that I think my opinion would be of
value to your question.” But instead they give an opinion
that isn’t honest or isn’t their own and that
really screws up the creative process. Because many of these
people are not creative entities, or they don’t have
the experience or the desire, the longing that creative people
have to see the finished project at its best…it doesn’t
mean anything to them. And if something doesn’t mean
anything to you…you shouldn’t have an opinion
on it. You should take a pass on the question.
LHP: People feel obligated to provide
and answer even if they don’t have one.
Sheryl: Do you remember that scene
in “The Rookie”…it
was just brilliant. The kid goes to tell his father that
his team won the baseball game…and baseball means everything
to this kid- it’s the one thing in his life- and the
father already knew that they were moving (again), this time
to a town with no baseball. The father is just very cold
about the whole thing…and in that instant…two
lives were ruined in one second. The kid hated the father
from then on because he believed that the father didn’t
care about him…and his father knows it’s breaking
the kids’ heart but he can’t worry about that
because he has to feed his family. He made the choices he
had to make to survive. It was brilliantly written and played.
LHP: The father thinks he’s teaching the kid the hard
realities of life…preparing him… and instead
he’s stomping on the kids’ dreams…taking
away his hope and joy.
Sheryl: But they never tell each
other that. So they live their whole lives thinking that
they don’t care about
each other…when it’s so not true. Then it screws
up their relationships with their kids…it’s just
the consequence of not being honest with your feelings. That’s
how a life can get ruined in one second. They weren’t
able to communicate or tell each other those things…so
the relationship was screwed up for the rest of their lives.
All that in that one scene. Very enlightening to me…because
we all struggle with our relationships with our parents,
and what our truths are- are not necessarily the truth.
LHP: Well, you may have just partially answered my next
question. In what way, if any, has being in the entertainment
industry influenced or affected you negatively?
Sheryl: Actually, in the end I don’t think that there
really have been any negatives. I just think everything that
has happened in the business has added to who I am today…lessons
along the way. Good or bad they are experiences that have
led me to discovery. It’s been a roller coaster ride
and I’m very grateful because I’ve never really
had it terribly bad. I’ve always been able to make
a living and be a mom at the same time. Sometimes it’s
been hard because it’s very difficult to do both successfully.
LHP: And they call me Pollyanna!
Sheryl: (LOL) No…but really…you know even during
the worst times of my life, when I may have been truly down
and fatalistic…the changes that I made (as a result)
were always for the better. My in-laws went through a lot
of the changes with me. They just happened to be here the
day I decided to leave the first talent agency I worked for
and open my own agency, and they were also here the day I
decided to close my talent agency. And they knew nothing
about show business at the time…but they knew me and…I
don’t want to sound like an idiot…but I think
that they knew that I could do anything I decided to do.
And I think that I’ve always felt that way…not
always with the same degree of total confidence in myself…but
I’ve always sort of known that I could go anywhere,
do any job anywhere and I would do it to 100%.
LHP: I think that is a wonderful attribute.
Sheryl: It can also be frustrating.
LHP: How so?
Sheryl: You are collaborating and
you’re working with
so many people on a project, which you do on every television
show and every movie…and not everybody works to their
100 percent. So the 40% of the people who only work to their
40% ability slows everybody down. And that’s kind of
frustrating. You know you don’t have complete control
of the project cause you’re only doing one aspect…the
small part that you do.
LHP: Most of the people I have asked
that question have answered similarly…and told me that the negative experiences
in the industry have made them more cynical…about people…about
the business; it has put a tougher outer shell on them.
What I find very interesting about
your response is that- and you and I have talked about
this before- I think that
you are just in a great place in your life where you can
say to yourself and to the world, “This is who I am,
this is how I do things and I’m not going to let that
happen to me. I’m not going to let anyone rain on my
parade.” For me personally that is very inspirational.
Sheryl: Because Patti…trust me…I love show business
more than anybody I know. It’s always been intoxicating
to me…like a drug…it makes me feel good because
I’m allowed to be creative. It’s totally a drug…it’s
a fantastic drug…you can get intoxicated on many levels…the
money, the fame, or by the collaboration, the creativity…something
that gets a hold of you. When I work on a set I still get
the same excitement that I did the first time I came to California…the
first time I stepped on a sound stage- any sound stage. I
just…I get high. Like I’ve never been there before.
It’s very weird- and in a way it hasn’t really
managed to make me cynical because I still love what I always
loved about it. It’s the people and the attitudes of
people that can make you cynical. It isn’t the work
or the experiences with the work. And those kind of people
exist in every business.
LHP: What part of the process is it that gives you that
rush?
Sheryl: For me it’s the creativity and the collaboration.
I love working on a show…I love collaborating with
creative people. The art directors, the set directors…I
love them… those are the people that you see every
day when you’re working on a series, and everybody
is creative, the lighting guy, the sound director, everybody’s
into the final product. Which is what theatre was to me in
NY and what it never was to me in LA because nobody cared
about doing plays in LA. They only cared about getting an
agent and getting people to come see them in the play so
that they could get a television show. The whole process
and privilege of the play was lost on them.
LHP: What do you mean?
Sheryl: Doing the play…was just a showcase for their
acting…so they didn’t listen or pay attention
to the other actors…it was all about getting a television
show. I just think you really need to be present for the
process to benefit from it. I don’t think that there
is any thing special about show business except that you
really have to love what you’re doing… that creative
energy. Daniel Day Lewis won the Screen Actor’s Guild
Award recently and I thought, here is someone that just loves
being an actor. He loved American movies when he was growing
up and he loves being an American movie star, but he loves
the process, he loves what he does above all else. That’s
brilliant…that’s a successful life.
LHP: As opposed to…?
Sheryl: Somebody who is talented
but messed up about what matters. It’s like being in love with a person and
then sabotaging the relationship…for whatever reason.
You’re so lucky and it’s so precious to be able
to go to work every day and do something you dearly love.
You may not like the process of movie making at times as
an actor because it can be very slow and you don’t
get immediate feedback on you efforts a lot of times…but
it’s also really interesting…if you are there
to do the work. Which is finding out- and being a writer
Patti you know this- it’s finding out what the writer
wants to say- telling somebody’s story- not just saying
the words. And there aren’t that many people who can
do that. There are a lot of times we settle a lot for “Ok” acting
from people because that’s what we have.
LHP: Hmmm. You know…the first interview we did for
the website was with Renee’ O’Connor…from
Xena. Since the series ended I have been waiting to see just
what she would take on next. One thing that really strikes
me about her…it seems she has never really taken advantage
of all of the commercial opportunities available to her during
Xena and afterward to use as a springboard into other things.
She seems to have always just sort
of followed her heart. I believe that the first thing she
did after Xena ended was
Shakespeare in the park with a community theatre. Then she
shot an experimental short sponsored by WIF in Vegas. A part
of me thinks she ought to capitalize on the commercial opportunities,
but a bigger part of me is standing and applauding her for
following her heart and working on her craft. I don’t
know what her life is like…I’m sure she’s
had many offers…but she seems to be doing what she
feels she needs to do as an actress…and I admire that.
Sheryl: It’s hard for women. Women are judged by their
looks. She’s an attractive woman and the pressure is
on women- to hurry up and do everything because there is
so much ageism in the business and they might not get the
chance later. In fact I saw Jessica Lange on Larry King the
other day and she looked gorgeous. She’s one of my
favorite actresses. And what I see in her now…I see
the wisdom that comes with age…and the wonderful quality
that those things bring to the story telling of great stories.
And I just long for that in actresses. Seems like she found
out too that there is more to life than show business and
so she decided to live her life. Another woman who is an
incredible actress, Kathryn Ross, beautiful, wonderful actress…and
you don’t get to see her anymore. I think that it becomes
very difficult and they just decide that they want to have
a life.
LHP: I think it’s wonderful
that they do what they want to do.
Sheryl: I have seen some of the most
beautiful women in the world. The agency I worked for early
on represented a
lot of beautiful women, like Dorothy Stratton. But I see
so much more beauty in women that have lived…Jessica
Lange, Michelle Pfeiffer these women are so much more beautiful
now than they were when they were young. Meryl Streep in
Adaptation…that was so different than anything she’s
ever done and it was such an honest performance, really a
pleasure to watch. I love looking at beautiful faces too but as far as depth of story and acting goes and enjoying the performance - the beauty of the actress involves so much more than just a pretty face.
LHP: I think everyone on my top ten
list of actresses is over the age of 30. Meryl Streep,
Michelle Pfeiffer, Glenn
Close, Olympia Dukakas, Maggie Smith, Jessica Lange, Sally
Field, Shirley McClaine…and so many more.
Sheryl: Mine too…(LOL)…and I hope that’s
not just cause I’m getting older.
LHP: (LOL) Same here.
Sheryl: Great actresses…they go into everything they
do with an interest in learning…about the character…the
story…the language…the time. They don’t
just say, “I’m a great actress, I’ll do
it this way.” They research …it’s a craft.
Not everyone who is pretty can do what Meryl Streep can do.
LHP: And what about Nicole Kidman?
Sheryl: You can see she has that
love for making movies…loves
acting…loves what she does and researches it…invests
in it.
LHP: We have been talking about a
lot of great female actresses. What do you think the atmosphere
is right now toward women
in the industry in general, and with women in the industry
toward one another? Do you think women have achieved equality
in the industry yet…
Sheryl: No. They’ll never have
equality in anything…
LHP: Why do you think that is?
Sheryl: Well…lets just say that it’s gonna take
a long time. I mean, we’ve come a long way baby and
all that, but we haven't even come close to equality yet.
No way. I think there are a lot more really capable women
in management now, but they still have to play the same old
game. Like Sheri Lansing is amazing. But I also think she
has to compromise on a daily basis so much that I could never
do her job.
LHP: I find it very interesting that
you picked her as an example, because I’ve had a number of women in the
industry indicate to me that they wonder how much she can
really do on behalf of women, in a public way, without eliciting
the wrath of the larger male counterpart of the industry.
How much can she advocate for women before men might label
her as right wing, feminist, and/or anti-male…mostly
out of fear or insecurity…not for any reason that would
be planted in reality.
Sheryl: Because she’s smart, and she knows the reality
of it. There is no advocating. She is good at her job but
she also knows that she’s lucky to have it…lucky
to make movies…which is really a great job…fun
to do. She’s not straddling that line because she can’t.
LHP: There are probably a lot of
women in the industry who would like to more actively advocate
for women and women’s
projects, but they believe that the men in the industry would
focus on that aspect of their efforts alone and not realize
that they can advocate for women without slighting men in
any way.
Sheryl: You know why I think Sherry
Lansing is brilliant? Because I think she knows the reality
and the truth of her
value and she uses her power to the best of her ability.
She makes decisions to the best of her ability but knows
how to play the game and it’s still a man’s game
in this industry. You have to know how to play the game,
to make compromises and still get what you want out of the
equation.
LHP: And then again, sometimes you can accomplish more if
you do it quietly.
Sheryl: Right… and so they have to get their message
across in small doses…do what they can. Sherry Lansing
is smart and she knows that. And you know what…I think
there are people put here (on earth) who are supposed to
save the world…and there are people who just aren’t.
I don’t think someone is wrong for not doing it. But
you hope that everyone will at least make some small attempt
to make it better in some way that they can.
LHP: I wonder how it will ever change, if women feel they
have to play the same old games the same old way?
Sheryl: I’d do it another way and I might never last
very long playing that part of the game. That isn’t
the part I love about the business.
LHP: You know…a big part of life in the industry,
and you and I have talked about this before too…is
ageism…what do you think about the whole issue of ageism.
Sheryl: Oh there is ageism in every
industry. I’ve
even seen it in restaurants. You know when I was in my late
20’s people saw me. As I get older, younger people
look past you. But ageism is an ugly fact in any and all
businesses in America. And, if I can be so blunt, in some
ways I think that it is the destruction of the world…because
with age comes wisdom.
There are very few Dhali Lamas who
are born with the wisdom. You learn it by living and growing,
and with time. I still
feel I have so much to learn, but I also feel like for the
first time in my life…after everything I’ve gone
through and learned from…I’m just so much wiser
in every decision I make. And I can see it because I work
with a lot of really young people. There are a lot of really
young people in show business. And they often don’t
have the knowledge or the life experience to make a good
decision, nor the love for what they are doing because they
don’t know enough to appreciate it.
LHP: And perhaps they have ambition for the wrong things.
Sheryl: Having ambitions can be good-
it means you haven’t
been worn down by life.
LHP: But maybe the ambition is not
for things that are lasting or substantial… it’s
for things they think they want.
Sheryl: Right…which brings us back to the whole question
of how people even know what they want…and what the
process is for finding that out…right? I don’t
even think I knew what I wanted…I still don’t
sometimes. I know what I love… and what I don’t.
But answering the question, “What do you want?” can
be hard.
I’ve sat in the green room with a room full of young
executives and had them go an entire week without being able
to make a simple decision about a project or about casting.
They sit and criticize the writing, the acting, the director…and
these people aren’t even the creative talent of the
show. And I listen to this and think…if you really
felt that way why do you wait an entire week to say something?
And why do you just sit around and criticize it…instead
of making decisions to change whatever the problem is. If
the writing isn’t there, why criticize the actors?
But you have all this input because
they don’t even
know what they think or what they are saying, or only agree
with it or say it because they heard somebody else say it.
Which goes back to what I said before…you have to be
honest about your opinion, or if you don’t have one,
don’t give one. You could take that part of the business
and just…you know…see ya. A lot of creative people
in this business get destroyed by that.
LHP: I think that’s why Ladyhawke is such an attractive
endeavor and why so many creative people are being drawn
to us. They want to be a part of that creative process and
have their input honored by other creative people…not
by someone who doesn’t have any real or substantial
creative experience or even life experience by which to support
or judge their gifts or efforts.
We have a number of people with a
great deal of successful creative experience, as well as
life experience, who know
what we want and what we don’t want in terms of…just
behavior…treating people the right ways…being
good to people… and do the right things by one another
and by other people…in the work and with the projects.
Because that is what we are ultimately committed to. There
is no point in living this journey if we can’t live
it with joy and help create positive working experiences
for ourselves and for those who work with us.
Sometimes the carrots that get dangled
in front of you, that tempt you to abandon that conviction,
are really attractive.
But ultimately it isn’t worth it…(LOL)…in
the end, the carrot turns out to be a lemon.
Sheryl: Right…and the cost
of the carrot is your soul. You have to sell your soul.
Who knows, (LOL), maybe I’ll reach a point where I’m
ready to sell my soul. You never know!
LHP: Oh I don’t know Sheryl…I doubt you’re
susceptible to that…you’re long past that…you
know who you are and what you want. I suppose we all think
we might give up some part of ourselves to reach our dreams…but
then I think you and I both know where the line is for us
on a personal basis.
Sheryl: You know your questions are
interesting because I don’t always know what I want to do but I definitely
know what I don’t want to do…if that makes sense.
LHP: Absolutely. Isn’t that something, how that works
for most of us? And as a whole, of the people I’ve
spoken to in the industry, the thing that is easiest for
them to recognize and express is what they don’t like
about the industry. On the flip side, they can most easily
express what they do like that it has done for them on a
physical level- what it has afforded them.
What seems hardest for them to express
is in what ways they have benefited on a deeply personal
level…as a human
being…how have they grown. I’m not sure but it
is something that I’ve noticed repeatedly in my conversations
with people in all walks of the industry. But that rarely
happens with you Sheryl…everything is always very personal
to you.
Sheryl: And that’s how I work too. If it doesn’t
mean anything to me and it’s not personal to me it’s
very hard to do it… because then it becomes work.
LHP: What CD is playing in your car and home stereo right
now?
Sheryl: None.
LHP: (LOL) Yeah, some days, “Quiet” is
my favorite group too.
Sheryl: That’s very important you know. I love music,
but my stereo in my car has been broken because I blew it
out playing music too loud and I’ve kind of replaced
it with quiet. But I miss music…music makes me really
happy. I mean when I hear the commercial for Chicago…which
is playing on TV about every 5 minutes right now…a
smile comes on my face…I swear to you. And you know
what? That’s what I want to do…I want to feel
like that all the time…I want to do something that
makes me feel like that.
LHP: What is your favorite thing to do in the quiet?
Sheryl: Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Just to be totally still and quiet. I love being in my
bed. I love being outside
in the sun, in the quiet. Sometimes I like to put music on
and sing to myself…not out loud…just to myself…act
it out to myself. When nobody’s watching and I can
do whatever I want. (LOL)
LHP: What is the thing that always makes you smile?
Sheryl: When I think of my kids.
I know a lot of women say it but its true. They are the
greatest things that I’ve
created. And maybe I’m taking too much credit for it…I
mean it was a collaboration with my husband after all…(LOL)…but
they are just great kids. I just think they are incredible.
Even the negative things about them
are incredible. Seeing the development of a human spirit
grow is amazing. And what
they already knew as babies…its unbelievable. You see
the qualities in yourself and the husband or something that
sneaks in genetically from your grandmother or something.
I mean it’s really fascinating. I mean seeing something
that you made, physically, from your genes, grow and develop
into a person.
LHP: What’s the thing you see in your kids that you’re
proudest of and what’s the thing you see in your kids
that you wish they didn’t pick up on.
Sheryl: I’m most proud that they both like themselves
and have a lot of self-confidence in themselves. They are
comfortable with anybody anywhere. They could be in any situation
and I think that they really both have really good self-esteem.
But I wish the world was different and they didn’t
have to be so concerned with being…“men”… having
to make a living in life. As they get older that is what
their whole focus becomes. Like what am I going to do to
make a living? To support myself and if I want to have a
family and a wife? That shouldn’t be the goal of life…it
shouldn’t be the choice of “what do I have to
do to make money” and unfortunately that’s the
reality of our world. How many people really get the opportunity
to find out what they really want to do?
LHP: Sometimes it feels like you have to choose between
security and your dreams.
At this point in the journey my own goal is to try to find
out how to…let go of more of the material goods that
I perceive of as emotionally important to me or that represent
security to me…to follow my dream. Because ultimately
I think that in the end that dream is not about what I can
accumulate, but about what I can accomplish. But then I wonder…am
I being brave or am I being stupid?
Sheryl: Who’s to judge? I mean sometimes you’re
being brave…sometimes you’re being stupid. I
think a lot of people have no spiritual connection with anything
anymore. And I think that’s what is missing. I think
that they are too busy working that they are workaholics
that they think that all they have to do is make a living
and there’s no time to stop to enjoy what they’ve
created. They substitute material things.
But you know…say you buy a new car. You’re so
excited…but how long does that last? Then you need
something else. I think a lot of these people who will eventually
develop into really talented people…when they find
that connection with their spiritual self. Because otherwise,
it’s all about material things. And…you know
I think that there’s a compromise there…I think
that you have to do both…I think that it would be stupid
to…
LHP: To give up ones security completely?
Sheryl: Not to give up your security…but you shouldn’t
have to choose…you should be able to do both. It’s
that same issue…of seeking balance.
LHP: Right.
Sheryl: But there is also nothing
wrong with liking good things. I love good things. I don’t need them to make
me happy but I enjoy them. And that’s ok. It’s
ok to want those things. But if your mindset is to deny your
need for material things…if you don’t admit you
have a need or desire for some material things…then
you’re lying to yourself too. I don’t need diamonds
but I like them…(LOL)…they would make me smile.
LHP: (LOL) Well…I do think about what happens if I
let go of those few things that represent security to me.
I mean…I know, intellectually speaking, that it is
self-deception to believe that money or things can give us
security. But emotionally we all seek it anyway.
Sheryl: And that sucks…but that is what’s holding
you back. There are a lot of people who just take stupid
chances…you can’t be like that either…you’ve
worked to hard to get what you have. You’ve made sacrifices
so you don’t want to lose it. There’s got to
be a way to find a balance. To figure out, “I can’t
have it all, at least not right now…so how am I gonna
do what I want to do and keep a little bit of this?” I
think those are the choices we have to make every single
day.
LHP: If I’m honest…(LOL)…the
true issue here is my addiction to collectibles and my
difficulty reconciling
that with my desire to be free from the burden of materialism.
I have no more room for anything else but I love them, I
love hunting for them. Its like treasure hunting. You should
have come that day I was trying to sell some of it.
Sheryl: I know…(LOL)…I’m gonna have to
come through your collection. I didn’t really know
you had that stuff.
LHP: You know how they say, “only buy what you like”,
well I end up liking everything and then I have a hard time
getting rid of it. I just appreciate the design and quality
of the older stuff, especially from the 1920’s through
the 1950’s. So don’t worry…I’m sure
you’ll have another chance. After I move and unpack
it all again, you can come “shopping” at my house.
Sheryl: (LOL) And you know I will!
LHP: In what ways do you feel you are brave?
Sheryl: Waking up every day. (LOL)
No…as a rule I
just try to get rid of fear. Because I think fear is disabling…I
don't think of it as being brave I just think of it as something
you have to do…it’s one of the “have to’s” of
life.
LHP: Well then…what do you
think are some of your best qualities?
Sheryl: I think the combination of
good taste and honesty…I’m
very honest…and I think that as a combination it is… rare…
LHP: Yes, and for some people that
may be scary…
Sheryl: I think what it does…it leads to your individual
truest art form…those two qualities. You may not share
my tastes…but if I tell you its good…it’s
what I really personally deeply think is good.
LHP: If there was one thing you could
change about yourself, what would it be…something maybe that you’ve
struggled with that you would rather not…
Sheryl: I think I would like to be
more proactive. I think I have so many incredible creative
ideas but sometimes I
just don’t know how to get started. I don’t know
if it has anything with being a woman, or my upbringing,
or what. And I trust my own instincts…I know they are
good ideas. But then again, (LOL), as long as it’s
a good idea and it’s in my head nobody can disagree
with me or tell me it’s not a good idea.
LHP: What would you like for people
to remember about you, and the work you’ve done,
when all is said and done?
Sheryl: Well I hope, and you know
because we’ve talked
about this too, I still have one dream project in me that
I’d love to do. I’d like to direct a Broadway
musical…like Rob Marshall did. Not a film or a film
of a musical but, you know, a live Broadway musical. Somewhere…it
doesn’t have to start on Broadway but eventually I’d
like to be able to reach the masses with something that’s
really entertaining, something that really gives a positive
message to the audience. And something that is a lot of fun
to be a part of producing and to watch. I just think the
combination of music, acting and dance is very entertaining.
I think it always has been. It is truly that what entertains
me. And I would love to be able to perfect that art and do
something meaningful and creative.
LHP: Do you at all worry that if
you were to produce the musical you want to produce…that…hearing
the music over and over again in rehearsals would take
the joy
out of the finished product for you?
Sheryl: No. Because the process is
so joyful…that’s
the biggest part of what I love about it. Not the money I’m
gonna make, not the awards I’m gonna win, but the process.
LHP: Its like being in summer camp
in some ways, don’t
you think?
Sheryl: I loved being in summer camp!
I could so live in a Kibutz. I would probably make a really
good socialist because
I love collaboration. Its very very creatively … what’s
the word… you get an injection of other people’s
ideas and theories…which makes your own ideas.. you
know nobody’s creative on their own, everybody steals
ideas from everybody else. It’s those bits of the ideas
that add to the mix that make you who you are and make your
creativity happen. You can’t be creative by yourself…
LHP: That’s a good point actually. A good deal of
our ideas come from something or someone else you heard or
saw. Then you put your own personal spin on it. Even if people
don’t know they are collaborating…they are collaborating.
I guess everything, when you get right down to it, is a collaboration.
Sheryl: Even conversations in everyday life are collaborations.
LHP: So this collaboration…producing this musical…is
your ultimate dream, right?
Sheryl: Right. I’d like to
leave a work of art behind.
LHP: (LOL)…you say that like it’s you’re
dying wish. You aren’t anywhere near retirement! So
you’re just saying that this is the one thing you want
to do before you ever hang it up for good.
Sheryl: (LOL) You know, I’ve always said…“You
know…they’ll think I’m a genius when I’m
dead.” (LOL) No, of course I’d still like to
be here. I think I’d enjoy it a lot more if I were
living when it happened! (LOL) Not that I feel like I’m
a genius! I just feel like I have a lot to give and I really
know this business and I really believe I know what entertains
people. I just haven’t been in a position to put that
vision together yet.
LHP: Sheryl…I can say this from experience…you
are a very powerful presence.
Sheryl: But I haven’t used that. I’ve never
used it in that way anyway…to take over and be in charge
and…well that was never my plan. I’m not sure
what keeps me from stepping into that at this moment in time…because
this is something I know in my heart I really want to do.
LHP: I think that things
sometimes need to percolate. You and I have talked about
this at
length before…this
passion you have to produce this particular musical…and
you know I think it’s a great idea and that I have
no question you would succeed. But I also think that sometimes
the time just isn’t quite right in our lives yet. And
we innately know that the other priorities and responsibilities
we have would divide our attention and not allow us to participate
and succeed with that dream the way we must to be satisfied
with the process. You are an extremely intuitive person.
I have no doubt that you will know when the time is right.
Sheryl: I’m glad you said that because it makes sense.
And I have been wondering how I can be so sure this is something
I want to do…know I will do…and yet have continued
to wait to do it. I have had so many coincidences around
that particular piece… I haven’t even told you
guys all of the stories yet. I have even met people involved
with the original production of it.
You know I love the business so much
that I once thought that if I wasn’t in show business, I couldn’t
be happy…I no longer feel that way. Which is very freeing…it
allows you to fully succeed in it because you aren’t
obsessed with it.
I’ve been taking a little breather and thinking about
things just like this…things I really want to do. And
what I really want above all else is to have a happy life.
I think I’ve been developing a deeper understanding
of what that means…and what it takes.
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